Gaming Zone > Unreal Tournament 2004
A Bit of Better Balancing
Gil-galad:
--- Quote from: The_Cowboy on May 21, 2021, 23:37 ---
--- Quote from: Gil-galad[The REAL one --- - the closer the guy is from scoring before being killed by an enemy, more the points that should be awarded for the kill, IF the flag is indeed returned. Think of it like an assist on a manta run.
--- End quote ---
Question:
If the Killer gets killed and then flag gets returned, does the Killer still get points?
--- End quote ---
I think that that player should receive those points.
--- Quote from: The_Cowboy on May 21, 2021, 23:37 ---Also I would note that on killing the FC (flag carrier), you get 3 points by default (1 for the kill and 2 for being FC). Any other added bonus would be at the top of that.
--- End quote ---
I guess i should have worked my piece better. I use "points" and "award", but what i meant is that when a player kills the enemy's team FC, that player should be deemed more useful/effective to his team than another who did not manage that.
How to instate the usefulness?
If the enemy is almost scoring, you are more usefull to your team if you kill him than your teammate that killed the FC right beside your team's flag post, since it's more difficult (distance from spawn point and aiming). It's also less likely to be done by another teammate (same reason). So, I'd measure the distance from the enemy's flag post, and give credit by distance unit (the smaller the better (1)). Then, for this competence, measure the sum of those distances, and rank accordingly. I'm not sure how to traduce all that in points, because points mix various actions. How to balance the worth that they have relative to one another? How to evaluate a (normal) kill count against a flag touch counts? Both are useful to achieve victory.
To end up with a unified value for a player is more complicated than that. Feel free to point the shortcomings of my ideas to devise ways to deal with them.
(1). Or the distance from your team flag post, the more, the better. Same end result.
The_Cowboy:
--- Quote from: Gil-galad[The REAL one] on May 22, 2021, 11:22 ---
I think that that player should receive those points.
--- End quote ---
Great! That is what I thought.
--- Quote from: Gil-galad[The REAL one] on May 22, 2021, 11:22 ---
I guess i should have worked my piece better. I use "points" and "award", but what i meant is that when a player kills the enemy's team FC, that player should be deemed more useful/effective to his team than another who did not manage that.
How to instate the usefulness?
If the enemy is almost scoring, you are more usefull to your team if you kill him than your teammate that killed the FC right beside your team's flag post, since it's more difficult (distance from spawn point and aiming). It's also less likely to be done by another teammate (same reason). So, I'd measure the distance from the enemy's flag post, and give credit by distance unit (the smaller the better (1)). Then, for this competence, measure the sum of those distances, and rank accordingly. I'm not sure how to traduce all that in points, because points mix various actions. How to balance the worth that they have relative to one another? How to evaluate a (normal) kill count against a flag touch counts? Both are useful to achieve victory.
To end up with a unified value for a player is more complicated than that. Feel free to point the shortcomings of my ideas to devise ways to deal with them.
(1). Or the distance from your team flag post, the more, the better. Same end result.
--- End quote ---
I think I comprehend the spirit of this concept. In most maps (like Linear) what you mention (about the relative distance from either flags) works. But some maps which have more space perpendicular to the (imaginary) flag corridor, we may give extra points to the player (assuming FC ran perpendicular to the flag corridor) if we reward based on how far FC moved (lateral distance shouldn't be taken into account).
So we can project the position vector of FC (relative to enemy flag) on to the relative vector of both the flags and get the exact idea about how much progress FC made starting from enemy flag to their own flag. Then we can normalize that magnitude with the magnitude of relative vector to get a number between 0 (FC killed near enemy flag mount location) and 1 (FC killed near their flag mount position).
I implemented the concept in this commit https://github.com/ravimohan1991/Equalizer/commit/be2d7a5d9d882593a47248841fa81bf64bca9279
Gil-galad:
--- Quote from: The_Cowboy on May 22, 2021, 12:20 ---So we can project the position vector of FC (relative to enemy flag) on to the relative vector of both the flags and get the exact idea about how much progress FC made starting from enemy flag to their own flag. Then we can normalize that magnitude with the magnitude of relative vector to get a number between 0 (FC killed near enemy flag mount location) and 1 (FC killed near their flag mount position).
--- End quote ---
That seems clever. I don't understand it fully, so my nooby opinion is just that.
I guess you'd also have to implement this calculus for flag touch (A), flag drop (B), which would permit you to do B - A = [distance that player carried the flag], which would be a portion of 1 (all the way) and 0,01[...] ( almost nothing of the distance that has to be traveled with the flag, post to post). or something like that. be cleverer than me please, I'm a john snow in statistics as well.
Instead of 1 you could chose another value, one that would reflect better the action's value in points, the real action's worth in the overall point counting thing. it's a question of balance, and it has to be set right.
The problem I see, in traducing any of those actions in number of points, is that you have to balance the right way the various actions. How much is worth each action relative to each other? Like, supporting the flag carrier or touching the flag? Or returning one? Or killing an enemy close to your flag? or just being able to kill and take some of the the top enemy players's pressure of?
I don't know if I just added confusion here. What do you think on that matter?
Gil-galad:
One other thing that just came to my mind that perhaps can help a bit.
we could also take the last flag drop position to infer the enemies's postion/vector/...? regarding said dropped flag as a way to it to assign value to a kill. The idea is to recognize the value of the action of returning flag, thus also in preventing the enemies from doing it, to be logical.
The_Cowboy:
Sorry for the late reply (got overwhelming few days, not that I was not expecting them :))).
--- Quote from: Gil-galad[The REAL one] on May 22, 2021, 19:09 ---
Instead of 1 you could chose another value, one that would reflect better the action's value in points, the real action's worth in the overall point counting thing. it's a question of balance, and it has to be set right.
--- End quote ---
Yes you are absolutely correct. That is the way to compute the fraction of path FC has covered carrying the enemy flag. Now that fraction is multiplied by the maximum score that should be awarded if the FC were killed, if I can say, "within the stone throwing distance" from their own flag. It is configurable and for the admins to decide (I set it to 4). Finally the result is converted into integer. For instance if the fraction is .80 then 4 * .80 = 3.2 and, when converted into integer it is 3. Specifically see (https://github.com/ravimohan1991/Equalizer/blob/44a5fdd02df00376448000c6eeacac5f39696529/Classes/Equalizer.uc#L648)
--- Quote from: Gil-galad[The REAL one] on May 22, 2021, 19:09 ---
The problem I see, in traducing any of those actions in number of points, is that you have to balance the right way the various actions. How much is worth each action relative to each other? Like, supporting the flag carrier or touching the flag? Or returning one? Or killing an enemy close to your flag? or just being able to kill and take some of the the top enemy players's pressure of?
--- End quote ---
Those actions have values which are configurable and can be set at the discretion of admins.
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