Gaming Zone > Unreal Tournament 2004
Freon - balance, bio-camping, classic maps - others (discuss)
holyspam:
--- Quote from: Piglet on March 17, 2023, 14:50 ---I did turn off challenge mode yesterday, and people have not yet noticed. I suspect it won't work well. Let's see.
--- End quote ---
Challenge mode is not a small game change that affects 1% of the game, it's affecting one of the most BASIC rules of the game, your Health Points.
When it's changed, old match history MUST be reset and the current Average PPR to be set as average, that way it can quickly adjust to the new game rules, without starting from zero stats.
Otherwise it takes 30 games of 6v6 or more (and was it 4 or 5 rounds?) for every player to gather proper statistics for it and then we can have proper balancing.
Just turning it off, will take 2-3 weeks to properly gather statistics and that's just for the everyday player.
People who don't join during this period will still have a PPR calculation based on a different type of game rules.
Just turning it off for 1-2 matches will 100% bring bad balance, all it proves is that you must reset the scores.
Nothing more.
You can use CTF stats to balance at this point, it will have the same effect.
I swear, everytime i tried turning it off, someone turns it on after 5 minutes. "SEE IT'S NOT WORKING!!!"
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Team A vs Team B
Score is 0-0
Balancer creates perfectly balanced teams, equal skills on both teams. The only moment that challenge mode doesn't affect the game.
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Score is 1-0.
Team A starts the round with 190HP. Team B starts the round with 200HP
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Score is 1-1.
Both teams start with 195HP
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Score is 1-2
Team A starts the round with 195HP. Team B starts the round with 180HP
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Score is 2-2
Both teams start with 190HP.
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Score is 3-2
Team A starts the round with 180HP. Team B starts the round with 190HP
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Score is 3-3.
Both teams start with 185HP.
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*********************************
At some point around here, things go wrong. Team B loses, due to some random kills and round is over quickly.
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Score is now 4-3.
Team A starts the round with 175HP. Team B starts the round with 185HP.
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Score is now 5-3
Team A starts the round with 165HP. Team B starts the round with 185HP
*************************************************
Now Team A PPR is slightly higher, due to easier win for the last few rounds, but the actual teams were balanced.
The only thing that is unbalanced up to this point, was the starting health and the final scores.
*************************************************
*********************************************************
** BALANCER SWAPS PLAYER A with PLAYER B **
** Team B is now a better team than Team A. **
** Teams are no longer balanced. **
*********************************************************
---------------------------------------------------
VERY easy win for Team B, due to HP and skill advantage.
Score is now 5-4
Team A starts the round with 170HP. Team B starts the round with 180HP
Easy win for Team B, due to HP difference+skill advantage.
---------------------------------------------------
Score is now 5-5
Both teams start with 175HP.
Easy win for Team B, due to HP difference+skill advantage and adrenaline accumulated.
---------------------------------------------------
Score is now 5-6
Team A starts the round with 175HP. Team B starts the round with 165HP.
---------------------------------------------------
Team A is completely disorganized, 3 rounds lost in a row, because the balancer and challenge mode made Team A lose.
Score is now 5-7
Team A starts the round with 175HP. Team B starts the round with 155HP.
---------------------------------------------------
*********************************************************
** BALANCER SWAPS PLAYER B with PLAYER A **
** Team A is now a better team than Team B. **
** Teams are AGAIN unbalanced. **
*********************************************************
---------------------------------------------------
VERY easy win for Team A, due to HP and skill advantage.
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...
...
...
..........
.......
You get the point.
The scores *appear* balanced, but the teams have been unbalanced for the past 4 rounds, and they will keep getting unbalanced due to challenge mode, not the balancer.
The losing team for the last 4 rounds and for the next 4 rounds, no matter if it's Team A or Team B, has no chance to win, since challenge mode combined with balancer, just gives the win to the team that is behind.
Complete disregard of average team skill, depends only on the game score numbers and which team is ahead.
Some players are lucky and get swapped to the winning team, some players are not.
Balancer loses all credibility.
PPR means nothing.
The team scores are kept close at all costs.
The game is a swing that favors Blue/Red team every 1-4 rounds.
Most games are like this.
--- Quote from: Piglet on March 17, 2023, 14:50 ---Thawing enemies with Bio? You know, that does sound interesting....
--- End quote ---
Another reason to kick Slayer.
Piglet:
Stats saved away and reset. Challenge mode off. Not sure who turned it back on again (Hagis?)
Let's give it a day or two.
Krellsan:
--- Quote from: Piglet on March 15, 2023, 16:55 ---
--- Quote from: Krellsan on March 15, 2023, 13:35 --- "suicidal label", which you can get with hitting ur frozen teammate. That bug is really awful.
--- End quote ---
That's not a bug. That's there by design. It stops you from having limitless health at no cost to you by suiciding by a teammate every time you get low, or by rocket-jumping into lava for full health like people used to do before we stopped that
--- End quote ---
You are quite good at sarcasm, i clearly see that, but there a little missunderstanding. Yes, I am aware that I abused self-thaw with lava quite often, and this was fixed mostly because of my actions. I will not speak about that our level of skills are radically different and that way i tried to take a little bit more chances with stronk enemy. Whatever. Only thing that I'm talking now - is the fact that if a person with the sign of the skull is being hit by a teammate, who has a sufficiently low level of health, then will became a frozen person with the sign of the skull. Apparently frozen people with a skull sign are perceived by the server as alive. That's just only thing that i wanted to say. And that what i called a bug in that situation.
holyspam:
--- Quote from: Krellsan on March 18, 2023, 16:43 ---
--- Quote from: Piglet on March 15, 2023, 16:55 ---
--- Quote from: Krellsan on March 15, 2023, 13:35 --- "suicidal label", which you can get with hitting ur frozen teammate. That bug is really awful.
--- End quote ---
That's not a bug. That's there by design. It stops you from having limitless health at no cost to you by suiciding by a teammate every time you get low, or by rocket-jumping into lava for full health like people used to do before we stopped that
--- End quote ---
You are quite good at sarcasm, i clearly see that, but there a little missunderstanding. Yes, I am aware that I abused self-thaw with lava quite often, and this was fixed mostly because of my actions. I will not speak about that our level of skills are radically different and that way i tried to take a little bit more chances with stronk enemy. Whatever. Only thing that I'm talking now - is the fact that if a person with the sign of the skull is being hit by a teammate, who has a sufficiently low level of health, then will became a frozen person with the sign of the skull. Apparently frozen people with a skull sign are perceived by the server as alive. That's just only thing that i wanted to say. And that what i called a bug in that situation.
--- End quote ---
This discussion is not about possible thaw bugs, please move to separate thread.
(Never encountered this)
Piglet:
It's also not correct. That doesn't happen. Ever. Prove me wrong.
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