Gaming Zone > Unreal Tournament 2004
Freon - balance, bio-camping, classic maps - others (discuss)
Miauz55555:
--- Quote from: Piglet on March 24, 2023, 18:20 ---
--- Quote from: Miauz55555 on March 24, 2023, 15:56 ---You need 11 single bio for a full 100% from 0 thaw .. like I worte there: https://miasma.rocks/index.php/topic,1869.msg24267.html#msg24267
--- End quote ---
You deliberately being a twat on the server doing that is not a good reason for changing the functionality. it is, however, a pretty compeling reason to kick you....as I did.
--- End quote ---
Let's say I deserved that kick.
But calling me a "twat" is a bit rude, or do I misunderstand your post? Within the game, I can understand that callings and don't care. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/de/worterbuch/englisch/twat
Here the sittuation: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1774450589
Here is the full game:
https://www.twitch.tv/miauz55555/video/1774269986
Dawkins:
--- Quote from: Krellsan on March 15, 2023, 13:35 ---Jeez. Maybe you shouldn't fix something that isn't broken? And maybe for example create a vote on these parameters? Apparently just leaving everything "as it be" is not an option.
Why not just divide the servers into kindergarten and professionals-tryharders. Something alike - u shall not pass if ur ppr lower than 10! 8! above! lower! Add some mightiest bots there for creating a crowd if there not many ppl online. And then we will see which server have more online and on which one situation is healthier and friendlier. Not everyone here wants to be a grand achiever or instantly do it in a competition mode. Jeez, dudes. With these settings U literally pull out, throwing overboard specifically me, and some other people, who just can't reach your skill. My complaints on this freon is just only about "suicidal label", which you can get with hitting ur frozen teammate. That bug is really awful. Everything else - just about human behavior and "achiever pro" issues.
--- End quote ---
This sums up very well my view on the current changes and the overall ambiance on the server ; I feel the new settings are causing more problems than it solves :
-Modifying the PPR calculation and basing it on fewer games creates aberrant values and unbalanced teams ; this happened a few times with good players having abnormally low ppr (yesterday laka went from 4.5 ppr to 15 which resulted in a 0-10 game). And there was also cases of players having inflated ppr. It also punishes consistency because you'll systematically end up in a team with lower pprs
-Respawning with lesser HP is surreptitiously nerfing the players with aggressive playstyle (but I guess that's my problem).
-My overall impression on balance is that the current settings creates teams with either very high or low invididual scores, before it ends up pairing the two top-scoring players from opposite team together.
-I havent noticed any difference regarding the biocamping.
-About the ambiance on the serv : some people seem to struggle to accept the fact that not everyone wants to play competitively, it is after all a FFA server and one should try not force his views of the game onto others but rather accept the variety of motives which make ppl play this game (ie just having fun). Instead, I'm feeling that the difficulty to deal with the frustration of loosing often results in an unload of anger onto a few space goats, which is saddening to witness.
My impression is that these changes of settings are a result of blaming and subsequently trying to control external factors (other players or settings) which are wrongly judged as the reason of the problem.
holyspam:
--- Quote from: Dawkins on March 25, 2023, 11:36 ---This sums up very well my view on the current changes and the overall ambiance on the server ; I feel the new settings are causing more problems than it solves :
-Modifying the PPR calculation and basing it on fewer games creates aberrant values and unbalanced teams ; this happened a few times with good players having abnormally low ppr (yesterday laka went from 4.5 ppr to 15 which resulted in a 0-10 game). And there was also cases of players having inflated ppr. It also punishes consistency because you'll systematically end up in a team with lower pprs
--- End quote ---
There was no change in actual PPR calculation, the stats were reset they are re-collected from 0 after the changes.
Some of the higher skilled players would reset their stats frequently and create the same issue anyway.
--- Quote from: Dawkins on March 25, 2023, 11:36 ----My overall impression on balance is that the current settings creates teams with either very high or low invididual scores, before it ends up pairing the two top-scoring players from opposite team together.
--- End quote ---
This happens because people join without stats, they get a temporary 4.5, when they have no match history, same issue as above.
--- Quote from: Dawkins on March 25, 2023, 11:36 ----Respawning with lesser HP is surreptitiously nerfing the players with aggressive playstyle (but I guess that's my problem).
--- End quote ---
- Default 3spn logic was to get the thawer's HP or the average team HP
Full health thaws - 100/100 were caused due to a mutator bug, it wasn't supposed to work this way.
Challenge mode was reducing starting HP down to 155. (including thawed HP)
-5HP for every win scored by your team
-5HP for every extra win scored compared to the enemy team.
That resulted mostly in balanced teams but when the scores were not even, for example 9-6 the team that's ahead starts with 140HP.
You now start with 100/100 and get reduced HP on thaws.
But the balancer would balance teams according to PPR, so you ended up with balanced skill in teams but not equal chances to win. (in fact it was always a landslide)
It was put on hold due to 145HP working better with the "cuddles" mutator - you can heal to 145HP from teammates you thawed.
I am playing much more aggressively than you do and I only have issues when i'm not thawing, there's a very slight difference due to lower HP after thaws, but you can heal it back faster and higher now.
Provides a good incentive to thaw, it's Freon after all.
I sent to Piglet some code to adjust the 3spn thaw logic.
Instead of just HP, thaw with a min amount of HP+Shield(50/50 for example) + a percentage of thawer's HP on top, so if the thawer has 100HP, the thawed player gets another 25HP+25S, for a total of 150. (adjustable)
Challenge mode would work better for 2v2 up to 5v5, where there's a high skilled player but not enough players to counterbalance.
It still takes away HP from players who are not as skilled as you are Dawk...and those players are hurt much more from starting the game with lowered HP.
--- Quote from: Dawkins on March 25, 2023, 11:36 ----I havent noticed any difference regarding the biocamping.
-About the ambiance on the serv : some people seem to struggle to accept the fact that not everyone wants to play competitively, it is after all a FFA server and one should try not force his views of the game onto others but rather accept the variety of motives which make ppl play this game (ie just having fun). Instead, I'm feeling that the difficulty to deal with the frustration of loosing often results in an unload of anger onto a few space goats, which is saddening to witness.
My impression is that these changes of settings are a result of blaming and subsequently trying to control external factors (other players or settings) which are wrongly judged as the reason of the problem.
--- End quote ---
I think the whole bio-thaw thing is getting too complex for an arena shooter and it seems to me that people abuse it/accidentally thaw.
Best if we just bring back the thaw protect, so people stop biocamping.
Regarding the other point, tell me how these points below are wrongly judged as a reason of a problem
1. Spending 90% of your time alive ingame chatting (getting killed while typing every round) -> moved to spec -> rejoin -> continue chat
-> Not playing the game
2. Thawing enemies while the round is still not over and essentially playing for the enemy team
-> Playing the game but intentionally against your team
3. Have balanced teams, then going spec, waiting for the balancer then joining a different team
-> Playing the game, but intentionally against a balanced game
4. Joining from spec in order to kill the bot which is the last alive and thawing, then spending your time AFK -> back to point 1
-> Not playing the game, intentionally abusing the way the game works.
5. Having a history of being toxic to multiple players, then trying to twist everything into "it's just a game" and "just a joke"
-> Playing the game, but verbally abusing the players.
6. Join the game with your stats intentionally reset,you gain an unfair advantage, which snowballs into a team advantage.
-> Playing the game, abusing the way it works, "didn't know" is not an excuse for high-skilled players
The actual problem is giving a second (or 100th) chance, to the 6 categories above.
Dawkins:
--- Quote from: holyspam on March 25, 2023, 14:16 ---There was no change in actual PPR calculation, the stats were reset they are re-collected from 0 after the changes.
Some of the higher skilled players would reset their stats frequently and create the same issue anyway.
This happens because people join without stats, they get a temporary 4.5, when they have no match history, same issue as above.
--- End quote ---
My bad about the PPR calculation, I thought it was modified but was obv wrong.
--- Quote from: holyspam on March 25, 2023, 14:16 ---Challenge mode would work better for 2v2 up to 5v5, where there's a high skilled player but not enough players to counterbalance.
--- End quote ---
Im still not convinced that removing CM and modifying the HP on respawn has solved the balancing issue (if there ever was one), but my view could be biased since its solely based on impressions, so lets see what comes out of an obective analysis of the datas..
--- Quote from: holyspam on March 25, 2023, 14:16 ---
--- Quote from: Dawkins on March 25, 2023, 11:36 ----My overall impression on balance is that the current settings creates teams with either very high or low invididual scores, before it ends up pairing the two top-scoring players from opposite team together.
--- End quote ---
This happens because people join without stats, they get a temporary 4.5, when they have no match history, same issue as above.
--- End quote ---
I guess this issue would be solved once PPR datas get collected for everyone, again lets see how it turns out in the future.
--- Quote from: holyspam on March 25, 2023, 14:16 ---
Regarding the other point, tell me how these points below are wrongly judged as a reason of a problem
1. Spending 90% of your time alive ingame chatting (getting killed while typing every round) -> moved to spec -> rejoin -> continue chat
-> Not playing the game
2. Thawing enemies while the round is still not over and essentially playing for the enemy team
-> Playing the game but intentionally against your team
3. Have balanced teams, then going spec, waiting for the balancer then joining a different team
-> Playing the game, but intentionally against a balanced game
4. Joining from spec in order to kill the bot which is the last alive and thawing, then spending your time AFK -> back to point 1
-> Not playing the game, intentionally abusing the way the game works.
5. Having a history of being toxic to multiple players, then trying to twist everything into "it's just a game" and "just a joke"
-> Playing the game, but verbally abusing the players.
6. Join the game with your stats intentionally reset,you gain an unfair advantage, which snowballs into a team advantage.
-> Playing the game, abusing the way it works, "didn't know" is not an excuse for high-skilled players
The actual problem is giving a second (or 100th) chance, to the 6 categories above.
--- End quote ---
1.I think thats a bit of an overestimation regarding how much some people speak on the serv. I'm repeating myself but it is after all a FFA server and some people might join the serv for the fun rather than the competition.
2. I dont think the intention of players pushing enemies into lava is to play against their own team but rather to get easy points.
3-4. Again i dont think their intention is to mess up the game, these phenomenons rather seem like the everyday tribulations of a FFA server, and are overall rare.
5. About the verbal abuse, I completely agree with the fact that it has to go, however I feel that it sometimes comes from people who are in a position of power and wont get called out or punished for it.
6.I dont think I ever witnessed this, but it does indeed sounds like an abuse of the way it works.
That being said, I dont see how changing the server's settings will modify any the "problematic" behaviour listed above ; hence why I viewed these changes as an attempt to control extrenal factors that are actually not a problem (ie balance, hp, etc..)
Piglet:
If I'm being an ass, just tell me! I do get annoyed when on a team of players that seem to be playing onlyTAM
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