Truly outrageous botting, it's completely spoiling it for everyone else. Hopefully someone else will chime in and support me.
Lexa just *never* misses.
Check server logs from 15: 40 ish GMT today to hear other players complaining too.
Must be the french admins covering for their belgian french buddy. Risel can u do a check on these ppl?
Quote from: satin on February 02, 2024, 15:48
Truly outrageous botting, it's completely spoiling it for everyone else. Hopefully someone else will chime in and support me.
Lexa just *never* misses.
Check server logs from 15: 40 ish GMT today to hear other players complaining too.
very good player, i trully support him
@Satin
I completely understand your feelings, but it's called "pro" level.
Lexa is an old player who plays at pro level, and has participated in ut tournaments. He and a few other players play very well, especially on freon. Yes, it can be infuriating at times, but I think it's a great excuse to improve your movement and aim.
@Kuha
I think all Belgians should be banned for not sending me Belgian chocolate. Terrible injustice!
Yup, agree with Risel and Truebeard there. A very good player, there are quite a few excellent players in Freon: Holy, 4A, Korn, DVW, Piglet, Blub, Zeus (there are loads more but those ones come straight to mind). I've got him a couple of times - for every 15 kills on me in freon. He isn't unkillable, you just have to use tactics/team up on him I find or not miss with HS's 8)
Quote from: Stealer on February 02, 2024, 18:19Holy, 4A, Korn, DVW, Piglet, Blub, Zeus
I certainly shouldn't be in that list. I can barely hit a barn door. I do, however, have a good grasp of when and who to thaw in Freon.
Playing Freon does help your aim.
Lexa isn't botting, though it doesn't stop me from being one of the complainers when he keeps fragging me.
Great playlist imho
(https://i.imgur.com/BgE4LBE.jpeg)
Too modest PIglet :) Being sneaky and thawing the rest of your team whilst your 2 best shooters dm is always a winner :D
Too many beers for me - just thought I'd make it obvious for everyone, although it does seem to spin everyone out when I play sober and actually hit something! :P
I love constructive conversation in the Miasma community:
Argument: Look, Lexa is cheating, check the logs
Counterargument: Not true, he's just a good player!
In the same way, any suspicion of cheating can be justified. Of course, your topic won't change anything, Satin (unfortunately). I discussed the topic of cheaters on this forum many years ago - do you think anything has changed? You know what amuses me most about all this? When you blame someone for cheating, all the "defenders" of that person write that it's not true. But when you REVERSE the situation and ask for evidence that someone is an legit player... well, then there is silence. The only thing I expect from this community is fair play - is that too much? Of course, Soma, Killer, Quadro or anyone else will respond here in a moment, posting a screenshot of me insulting one of the cheaters - go ahead, I don't care.
Plaka, you can come to Freon one night and see for yourself how many other "cheaters" we have who "never miss". Believe me, they just don't join in to the vctf.
After you go in there, prepare to accept the fact that you have no aim at all. You never have. And that you never even knew how to play UT.
I've been to Freon a few times.
Those who play there have a much higher level of accuracy and movement than those who play VCTF.
I don't know all the names there, but when a Freon player comes on VCTF I usually notice it. Movement and that I'm dead :)
VCTF is played differend.
- You're trying to grab the flag
- You defended
- You use/abuse vehicles
On Freon (in a nutshell)
- You're playing to the man
- You are more focused on dodging and during that you try to hit someone.
- You're trying to heal your team.
- No "ulimited" ammunition so every shot counts
Knowledge of the map is required for both but more so on Freon.
I have to say that I to am sometimes guilty of naming someone's bot :) but I realize that this is (my hopefully minor) frustration.
I'm an average plus player this is "good" enough for VCTF but really not for Freon.
And I also realize that there are always better players.
Also remember that a lot of those who played this 10-20 years ago have moved on.
And sometimes they are still playing (Lexa BE) and you get a glimpse of how good they are/were.
From reading this thread and observing chat in game it seems there's a rift between VCTF and Freon servers and associated players. I can understand your concern Satin and I think it's good you've shared it so others can provide constructive feedback. Ofcourse Freon players are going to be more skillful and have a better aim, but it's how they play overall that defines them. I find some Freon players just camp and spawn kill rather than play the objective, which is why many VCTF players get titled and call them out. If you're a pro and know you don't cheat and have nothing to hide, then why is there the need to tell someone to 'stfu'? Hackusations are a compliment imo and they mean you're top level! But without anti-cheat on the server we need to learn to live with the controversy and agree to disagree on our opinions.
Massive respect to the "pro" players. I've ventured into Freon on a few occasions and spend most of my time being a nice shade of icy blue.
What really grinds my gears in Warfare is certain players constantly spamming spawn points and weapons lockers. The worst map for this is Longest yard, where some ruin the game by camping on the top ledge throwing down flak & spider mines. Don't get me started on the tank and manta >:(
Any chance the previous version without tank and top ledge can be re-instated?
Quote from: Plakatowy on February 03, 2024, 10:17
I love constructive conversation in the Miasma community:
Argument: Look, Lexa is cheating, check the logs
Counterargument: Not true, he's just a good player!
In the same way, any suspicion of cheating can be justified. Of course, your topic won't change anything, Satin (unfortunately). I discussed the topic of cheaters on this forum many years ago - do you think anything has changed? You know what amuses me most about all this? When you blame someone for cheating, all the "defenders" of that person write that it's not true. But when you REVERSE the situation and ask for evidence that someone is an legit player... well, then there is silence. The only thing I expect from this community is fair play - is that too much? Of course, Soma, Killer, Quadro or anyone else will respond here in a moment, posting a screenshot of me insulting one of the cheaters - go ahead, I don't care.
Not all suspicions of cheating are justified. You arrive with your limited knowledge at a VCTF server with netcode and 50 shots per second and you think you know the game. You insult someone who hasn't asked for anything and you think that's justified? I am trying to explain few things to you, but you're still stuck in your narrow-mindedness.
I invite you to go and type in my nickname on youtube and watch the videos of international tournaments where anti-cheats were active and viewed by the best player in the community. I think that's enough proof to say that I don't cheat ;) but hey... if Mr plaka thinks otherwise, how can I deal with this imPLAKAble argument?
Quote from: Ekulz on February 03, 2024, 12:10
If you're a pro and know you don't cheat and have nothing to hide, then why is there the need to tell someone to 'stfu'? Hackusations are a compliment imo and they mean you're top level! But without anti-cheat on the server we need to learn to live with the controversy and agree to disagree on our opinions.
Quite simply because as soon as I arrive on a server, I'm constantly receiving remarks and/or insults about myself. No matter how hard I try to explain certain things, people just don't seem to want to understand. So yes, at some point, I don't want to spend 1 hour talking when all I ask is to play in peace ;)
And one last thing, I sincerely believe that there are no aimbotter playing the game on a regular basis. We're in 2024, a game that's 20 years old and there's hardly any competition left... People play for fun because they like the game, not to try-hard with an aimbot.
This is just my opinion, but over the last 5 years I've come across maybe 2-3 aimbots on a game and that's it. So to come and constantly call people cheaters... please mind your own business ;)
It's common for VCTF players to think that Freon/DM/ICTF players are cheating, because most VCTF players don't focus on aiming.
A few years ago it was very common to see bots on the server, like every week. I believe that pig or someone implemented some other anti cheating system and I haven't seen any bots in a long time. Or like alexa said, cheaters prefer to play other newer games now
although I think some players use wall hack xD
I hold three main philosophies when it comes to cheating:
1. Players are allowed to be good at aiming and shooting
2. This is a dying game and every player matters
3. Without concrete evidence or witnessing it firsthand, it's impossible to say for certain if someone is actually cheating or if it's a case of point 1
I leave everybody with a haiku I wrote that might help remember some crucuial and important steps:
Someone you suspect?
Spectate them and hit record.
Send it to admins.
I respectfully disagree with point 2, Loon and Kuha don't matter at all.
Thanks
Let me explain you something,
Veica:
Quote1. Players are allowed to be good at aiming and shooting
This reminds me of Soviet sayings about equality from the last century. As I wrote in my post: you try to justify dishonest players in exactly the same way.
Quote2. This is a dying game and every player matters
Think about what you are writing. If someone cheats and upsets others, do you think it's ok? Just because "every player matters"? The freedom of an individual ends where another begins. Cheats should not be allowed in any game, don't even try to argue with it. We have a propaganda slogan from the 1930s in Poland: "sugar strengthens" [
cukier krzepi], intended to encourage the consumption of sugar for the development of the economy. Your argument is identical.
Quote3. Without concrete evidence or witnessing it firsthand, it's impossible to say for certain if someone is actually cheating or if it's a case of point 1
Explain what you mean by "concrete evidence", because I don't think you understand what this is about. The problem is justifying potential cheaters through the prism of "being good". I don't buy the argument like: "he's just good." No, that's all. Evidence of purity should be provided by an admins that has (should have) the appropriate tools. This is not the role of ordinary players. The lack of any control in this matter and relying on subjective "evidence" is ... hmmm ... outdated? What year is it?
Before you write a riposte (its to you, Veica), use your brain, because so far you have provided me with a lot of excess endorphin flow. :))
He is a good player, innocent till proven guilty - standard law etc. He should be able to play on mia servers without being harassed - isn't that like a core mia value? It used to be for T32 :P
Veica meant that spec the player in question and record a video of them.
This seems to be getting a slightly offensive discussion, there is no need for it.
Perhaps we should get a Freon team versus Vctf team to prove a point and play in both game modes? That might help settle things :D
Could anyone link me some youtube vids of Lexa in the competitive tournaments or just his alias, so I can search myself? I'm just curious, I've played against him a few times, I imagine back in the day he/she was much better? :o
You can always disable the chat entirely from showing on your screen, if you don't want to be bothered by other players. ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/s27xYjVM/chat-count.png)
Even in a recorded video it can be hard to see if someone is cheating. :-\
Yeah not to mention the 'Ignore Text' option too. I have this ticked for a few individuals who regularly blame the team when losing :))
(https://i.postimg.cc/BjsCX0s2/mutetext.png) (https://postimg.cc/BjsCX0s2)
Quote from: Stealer on February 05, 2024, 21:24
Perhaps we should get a Freon team versus Vctf team to prove a point and play in both game modes? That might help settle things :D
+1
How about a couple of hours set aside for this at the weekend. FREON V's Warfare, with a mix of FREON, CTF, VCTF, ONS.
Teamwork v's spray & pray.
Or better still, 2 x 10-a-side teams containing the best players from each discipline at the chosen time on Saturday evening.
ICTF on Kill Billy Barn burner.
Is it a challenge?
I know which team my money would be on :)
Quote from: Ekulz on February 07, 2024, 15:20
Yeah not to mention the 'Ignore Text' option too. I have this ticked for a few individuals who regularly blame the team when losing :))
Also a +1 for this.
Not content with petty whining in the game, some may, or may not have shouty CAPITALS as a nick :)
Aye, I'd need a few weeks to get everyone signed up and agreed on a date time. I'll make a thread and see if anyone is interested.
We could just leave it at Lexa, DV, Korn, Oops, hyeguys vs vctf team ::)
I'd be up for some ONS, I was always better at that than freon.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=xounz TO CHECK LEXAs AIM
However, I would also like to point out some basics, which some players in FREON ignore and what may result in a feeling of being run over by a steam roller on a daily basis
* not prioritizing thawing enough - thawing GIVES ammo, however most players thaw automatically with shield activated even if there is no direct threat (!) so they only get more shield, instead of getting more shock / lg / rocket / flak / ...
* not prioritizing thawing enough - thawing GIVES the opportunity to increase personal HP after your teammate has woken as the HP transfers in close vicinity
* going against hitscan situation with spam weapons (= bio / flak / rockets / grenades) - against superior hitscanners with good routing, the chances of getting close enough for a kill are like 0,01%
* making a lot of noise / not checking around enough - against skilled opponents every sound gives information (that includes spamming "just in case" on the other side of the map) and if one does not check around, the headshot may come from behind
* not utilizing map knowledge - it is possible to kill players like Lexa, one can use flanking ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanking_maneuver ), one can use surprise ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg ), one can use anything that does not equal to running head on towards the enemy (that includes biocamping in the corner)
UT feels like a game where any player with an average aim and with good enough understanding of some basics can excel in!
So my question is - *ARE YOU MAKING THE CORRECT DECISION BASED ON THE SITUATION AT HAND*?
If not, then the results should not surprise you :)
. (WRONG BUTTON :@@@@@@@@@@@@@)
Nice post Zeus. But this post is about Lexa (BE) not about some pro named xOunz. We all follow the some what pro scene of UT and we know that xOunz has godly aim. For more proof i think xOunz is TUS player while this Lexa guy never plays on TUS so i quess those admins there have banned him.
I still think Lexa paid Satin to make this post so we could all praise him here.
praise alexa? pff
(https://i.imgur.com/wUqFYOp.jpeg)
Lol all good valid points/tips there Zeus, I feel like they're kind of aimed at me? :)
Zeus annihilated me last night on crypt - always happens when I have a few beers or dodgy herbs (just worked out some random herb I'd been given had been sprayed with spice - I laughed and threw it all in the bin)!. Did manage a nice hs on him though ;)
I just play for a laugh, always have, slightly competitive but I'd rather have a giggle than stress over missing a shot :)
Was not aimed at anyone specific and the lack of basics applies to like 75+% of the players in Freon!
Which is unfortunate as sometimes playing for fun should include some thoughts on "How to increase ze fun?" and "How to avoid getting pwned every day?"
Quote from: Kuha on February 09, 2024, 08:50
Nice post Zeus. But this post is about Lexa (BE) not about some pro named xOunz. We all follow the some what pro scene of UT and we know that xOunz has godly aim. For more proof i think xOunz is TUS player while this Lexa guy never plays on TUS so i quess those admins there have banned him.
Either Lexa and xOunz are the same player or Lexa sometimes plays with that alias...as he's been logged here using it: »SøA«xOunz
*cough* https://www.utzone.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1874 *cough*
Most interesting thread @ utzone
The fact that it scanned the Recent folder for shortcuts is an interesting feature, however the contents of that scan ... what you comment truebeard? It is your windows account with those interesting shortcuts, unless someone went an extra mile to create a fake windows user called "virgile" just to frame you? :)
[01-02-2011 - 19:35:31] - »SøA«xOunz* Suspicious File - Matching File <*bot*> C:/Documents and Settings/virgile/Recent/holybot (j).lnk GUID : 4fc817e37af0511a61481b1ee8cb547d IP : 87.65.XXX.XXX:4133
Now we know what holyspam is using. :P
It's a relatively well-known Top Mutt [TM]. All you can do is pray for your nuts.
Quote from: lol on February 12, 2024, 17:54
[01-02-2011 - 19:35:31] - »SøA«xOunz* Suspicious File - Matching File <*bot*> C:/Documents and Settings/virgile/Recent/holybot (j).lnk GUID : 4fc817e37af0511a61481b1ee8cb547d IP : 87.65.XXX.XXX:4133
Now we know what holyspam is using. :P
Got me!
Quote from: zeus on February 10, 2024, 22:33
Most interesting thread @ utzone
The fact that it scanned the Recent folder for shortcuts is an interesting feature, however the contents of that scan ... what you comment truebeard? It is your windows account with those interesting shortcuts, unless someone went an extra mile to create a fake windows user called "virgile" just to frame you? :)
those are shortcuts, but why is it named holybot back in 2011 wtf, I wasn't even using holyspam as name back then.
Quote from: Kuha on February 09, 2024, 08:50
Nice post Zeus. But this post is about Lexa (BE) not about some pro named xOunz. We all follow the some what pro scene of UT and we know that xOunz has godly aim. For more proof i think xOunz is TUS player while this Lexa guy never plays on TUS so i quess those admins there have banned him.
Not sure if extreme sarcasm or serious
This is what the skill-learning curve looks like.
On the Y-axis, you see the difficulty to improve
On the X-axis, you see the skill level.
Most warfare-only active players, with the exception of maybe...what? 5 players? barely reach the blue zone
Most of the remaining UT2004 players are around red-green and too stubborn to improve
The slope is intentional, so that red and green can't even see the purple zone.
What's common is for players to stop trying to improve around the green zone or once they touched the blue zone for a bit, i've been there.
Then once you reliably play at the blue zone, you realize what is required to reach pro-level
(https://i.imgur.com/zharnTj.png)
It's not very hard to go from the blue zone to purple at first, but to reaaally play like cup players, the difficulty skyrockets.
If you ask pros, they will tell you that the purple zone has maybe 1-2 extra divisions(after purple, you have duel pro), from currently active pros I would say skaven would be there, you can watch some of his videos on twitch explaining what he thinks while playing.
Then, there's one big difference - being high-skilled in DM you can always somewhat compete in CTF by defending, the opposite is not always true, especially in DM/TDM (TAM/Freon is easy TDM)
I would say that I can sometimes reaching the purple zone in Freon, but I am not reliably playing there, because I don't use any strategies or real tactics. I am barely staying in the blue zone for DM/TDM and I would consider myself trash in duels.
For some of the known players, Zeus with his pentium+geforce 8000 PC(upgrade!) is rarely dropping from purple, dawk same but less prone to mistakes, quadro is all over the place from blue to hints of purple tactically and very sneaky.
Old inactive pros will return and easily play on a level in the blue zone, until they get back the feel of the game and then play at casual pro level.
I've seen Lexa/xOunz mostly stand and snipe on warfare, which is all you need to get 100+ scores without touching a flag once and only tryhards sometimes in freon/tam.
VCTF Berserk:
- gives you all weapons on spawn and you don't care about fire rates - makes the red-green part of the curve irrelevant
- low individual impact, high team combo impact - half the blue zone flattens
- vehicles > individual skills - a single vehicle shot can take out multiple enemies with low effort
- huge map size - dodging skills become irrelevant
- flag caps win games - skilled players will lean to defense than mindlessly trying to walk to enemy flag
- unskilled players just walk to enemy base - infinite amount of kill opportunities for skilled defenders
thank you for coming to my TEDtalk
Nice TED, but I disagree on this point:
Quoteskilled players will lean to defense than mindlessly trying to walk to enemy flag
Skilled players use their brains and do everything at the same time, they wait for the right moments to attack, they analyze who is defending their flag, they wait to destroy the opponent's manta before attacking (to avoid mantarun), they analyze which player took their flag (to know whether they should interrupt an attack or continue attacking). According to the player who took their flag, they know the most likely path that player will take and anticipate it. They avoid killing certain specific opponents while they are attacking to have fewer opponents in the base when it is time to get the flag. They "prepare the ground" before trying to capture the flag (killing raptors, tanks, scorpions, etc.). They stay on defense even though they are the best attacker when necessary. These players are extremely rare, I only know like 4 players like that. And they are able to win extremely poorly balanced games just by being smart, while the others attack endlessly or camp the entire game without thinking about anything
I also disagree with the graphic, this graphic is more accurate imho:
(https://i.imgur.com/ggsVS44.jpeg)
Quote from: sup on February 16, 2024, 16:10
Nice TED, but I disagree on this point:
Quoteskilled players will lean to defense than mindlessly trying to walk to enemy flag
Skilled players use their brains and do everything at the same time, they wait for the right moments to attack, they analyze who is defending their flag, they wait to destroy the opponent's manta before attacking (to avoid mantarun), they analyze which player took their flag (to know whether they should interrupt an attack or continue attacking). According to the player who took their flag, they know the most likely path that player will take and anticipate it. They avoid killing certain specific opponents while they are attacking to have fewer opponents in the base when it is time to get the flag. They "prepare the ground" before trying to capture the flag (killing raptors, tanks, scorpions, etc.). They stay on defense even though they are the best attacker when necessary. These players are extremely rare, I only know like 4 players like that. And they are able to win extremely poorly balanced games just by being smart, while the others attack endlessly or camp the entire game without thinking about anything
I also disagree with the graphic, this graphic is more accurate imho:
(https://i.imgur.com/ggsVS44.jpeg)
Not that I really want to partake in your banter, but I do have to say that you spelled "Resike" wrong
QuoteNot that I really want to partake in your banter, but I do have to say that you spelled "Resike" wrong
u're right, thanks for the correction Veica
(https://i.imgur.com/ZZuK773.jpeg)
@admins is it true that no anti-cheat is running?
I can not believe that.
As for the learning curve for Skill Level i think i'm stuck below avarage.
As for insight i could be above avarage.
Maybe there should be a poll for that :D
Q: What do you think your level is?
A: No, it's lower :-\
I think there should be data on the server for skill from 0 to over 6000!!!
2k3 --> skills > stable network <> 2k24 -->stable network > skills.
it really is a game changer tho.
zeus has internet bundle that comes with a cloak of the unreg perk,bro is like a wall object nothing regs on him lol
iam not molding , but iam this close to break my mouse cuz of this xD
Quote from: Arbok on February 17, 2024, 13:02
[...]
iam not molding , but iam this close to break my mouse cuz of this xD
I can reccoment the RocCat mouse brand, they are fairly solid.
....
I'm probably on the left red trash on that curve. I'm just lucky with hits.
Quote from: Miauz55555 on February 17, 2024, 18:08
Quote from: Arbok on February 17, 2024, 13:02
[...]
iam not molding , but iam this close to break my mouse cuz of this xD
I can reccoment the RocCat mouse brand, they are fairly solid.
....
I'm probably on the left red trash on that curve. I'm just lucky with hits.
nahh u alright , just please remove the weapon visibility xD it hurts my eyes
Quote from: Right on February 17, 2024, 11:39
@admins is it true that no anti-cheat is running?
I can not believe that.
Unfortuantely with an engine this old there are known ways of hooking into it that cannot be detected. Even with games on the current engines (Valorant), hooking into the engine and bypassing the most modern anticheat the industry can write is still possible...
Unless for money [competitive setting and accepting the risk of ban/respect loss/ cheater tag], cheating is absolutely rubbish. We play UT for the adrenalin rush . Cheating to get it? How can you sleep with that lol