A Bit of Better Balancing  (Read 9171 times)

hellfire

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2021, 10:30 »
sorry did not read the whole chat (So sorry if this sounds totally off). Just thought about api access to gametracker? I thought that site ranks all players? Why not just use that ranking for balancing?

hellfire

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The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2021, 10:35 »
Yup that should work too. Well, if you don't care about specificity and just the grand total.
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

Flenser

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #93 on: November 21, 2021, 14:12 »
It's been really nice actually speaking with players via the Discord voice channels.

Kuha has brought up the fact that I never complain about balance when my team is winning, and after discussing it with Gil, here are my thoughts.

When playing on a winning team, I'm able to get close to the flag, or make kills, or recover the flag, use vehicles, generally play the game.

When playing against a vastly better team, I spawn and die within seconds, one or more enemy raptor is overhead killing everyone and every vehicle, the base is completely overrun, and I'm sniped way before I can get near the enemy base. That's when I think "what's going on?" and look at the teams, to see Gil, moi, Kuha, Justice, Quadro, Piglet and every other top-ranked player on the opposite team. That's when I wish we had a balancer in place.

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2021, 02:22 »
I believe second phase is complete and perfectly working. In the third phase, I am exhausted/disgusted and/or no longer willing to write team switching code.

Well unless there is some more systemic theological incentive  8) :P
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2022, 03:22 »
([Captures*2] + [Flagkills*2] + frags) / timeplayed
Excluding players with less than 40 captures

Or just Points/Timeplayed cuz the points are already programmed considering the important aspects of the game

I believe it is time we start tinkering, pondering, and coming up with formulas like this for utilising the complete potential of Equalizer.

BTW Phase III is in action, as you may have noted in other thread (or first hand experience on the server).
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

Piglet

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2022, 12:10 »
I've been monitoring the server following the start of map balancing code going active.

What I've seen is that the highest scoring players are split between the teams. As coded the highest scoring player is on red. The next two most high scoring players are on blue, then all the way down the scoring rate it's one to red and next highest scoring player to blue.

There are two problems with this strategy.

1. High scoring doesn't mean more likely to win. I'm looking at loon when I say that some people get higher scores that probably were a lot of fun... but may not have been particularly helpful to their team...

2. People join and leave at quite a rate at the start of a map. That can throw out the teams. Some people try to get to play together... Which messes up the teams.

For issue 1:

To do a better job of initial balance we'd need to define what a balanced team looks like and how to construct one. That is really hard!  I'm pretty good in defence. If I'm defending more of the team can attack. If Duke is attacking with someone covering his back more people can defend. If loon is pissing off the other team by sniping then and they stop playing the game then I can run in and grab the flag despite not being a great capper. Each player has a different style. A perfect balancer would understand those factors and pick two groups that are as near the same as can be done. I suspect this is impossible!

I expect that pph is actually pretty effective.

For issue 2:

Hmm how much to intervene? My gut feel is 'as little as possible'. The  old mute code currently active keeps the team numbers aligned as it used to. I'm going to add one more check to it to ensure it doesn't swap the flag carrier... but more than that will take a lot of thought


« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 12:11 by Piglet »

Absolute_Madness

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2022, 12:23 »
An how it manage players who join mid-game ? The previous equalizer places the "new" player in losing team (team score) if there is no bot.

Piglet

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2022, 12:53 »
The current code places new players in the team with the lower player count, then the losing team if numbers are equal, or if equal and same score then it's randomly assigned

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2022, 14:06 »
but more than that will take a lot of thought
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2022, 23:47 »
Ok, was thinking if we were to even consider ELO rating, should that be done PHP side or UScript side?
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #101 on: February 01, 2022, 23:49 »
The contrast be as follows
PHP Side: Global
UScript Side: Contextual
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #102 on: March 11, 2022, 11:26 »
Ok a note of caution: some players seem unhappy with balancer(?). Well I can understand the resentment to play with full concentration instead of just gliding by, by having extremely strong team. But cursing balancer is not going to help anyone.

If you have any problem with it, write in the forums HOW? And then, if your intellect allows you to give suggestion, post it on forums.

Again, blaming balancer is redundant and useless!
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.

Piglet

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #103 on: March 11, 2022, 12:49 »
I'm still seeing the announcement text and announcement sound telling the wrong team at the start of the map. I can't see any obvious reason for that.

The_Cowboy

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Re: A Bit of Better Balancing
« Reply #104 on: March 11, 2022, 13:15 »
No clue about that mate! Messages are sent from server, so everyone should get same message category. Quadro has verified it several times and I can post hell's video
https://youtu.be/ZsUX3p1mFc0?t=1277
you can witness yourself!
Quote from: Wormbo
You learn UnrealScript mainly by reading other people's code. Removing code without an important reason (download size reduction and lack of helpfulness are not important in that sense) is extremely antisocial IMHO.