player numbers

[[MiA]Slim_Cognito]

while playing killing floor I  can't help but notice that power comes in numbers, waves become long and boring + the patty is to be laughed at.

i would like to see that this becomes less by making the amount of zombies that can be in a map at one time linked to the amount of players in the game+ if there are more then 6 players, add a second patty or 10-20 fp to make it more of a challenge instead of a nearly sure victory?

[[MiA]Raj]

Depends what map you're playing. I think it's currently balanced fine as long as you play true kf maps like Office (just my opinion).

If you want more serious game then play some serious maps. Not stuff like boxwithout hope.

[[MiA]Slim_Cognito]

true, but still, in some other maps it can still get boring if you are with too many, i don't mean like every player more is more zombies but more or less of a step over if the amount of players exceeds 8-10 or something. then you are looking at numbers well within 200 and with groups of 25 at max, it still takes ages in whatever map ur playing

[Monsterboy]

I completely agree with that. Not sure whether anything can be done about it (I know you can increase amount of zombies on map at once, but not sure about a mutator/mod that makes it dependant on amount of players), but it is true that with lots of players the zombies don't have a chance. They spawn and ten guys with hunting shotguns wait for them at the exit of their spawn area. Bam...dead. Then it takes a few seconds and the next wave comes. Bam...dead. Some maps are worse than others, but if you know the map you're playing then it's always the same.

I generally think that more zombies in total doesn't make the game more difficult, it just makes the rounds longer (and especially the first 6-7 rounds) more boring. Whether you kill 250 or 50 zombies - doesn't matter if they spawn one after the other. Except for the special scenario where you have lots of badly equipped newbies in round 8. Then the more experienced players might run out of ammo once the noobs are all dead with 50 fleshpounds to go.

[[MiA]afx0r]

you guys are getting pro... change the dif lvl to suicidal =P

[[MiA]Slim_Cognito]

so ur saying that i should ask raj to set the difictulty to elite? 

[Snipe34]

you guys are getting pro... change the dif lvl to suicidal =P

I think Afx0r is saying, as he's a programmer of 2.52: this is KF as it came to us -- and mainly it's like KF commercial pay-for-it version as well.  That KF is a mf bag of misprogrammed, hacky shit - with due respect to Alex the creator of KF, who has admitted programming irritated him and he wanted to concentrate on the artwork side.  So yeah, KF is a brilliant concept, but buggy.

Poor old Afx0r, Strel0k too and other guys are trying to hold down full-time jobs and fix this community KF version in their spare time.  Raj too with his busy school schedule, runs this site and the server, who in his post above gives a good example of a nice approach and also tact.

So yep, I'm saying is it's a matter of approach, of tact.

Yep, there's a problem with zombie/player numbers, we all know that -- the programmers especially, who know every last mf pixel.  No the rest of you guys didn't mean it badly, you're great guys, I love you all, but familiarity can be a bad thing.

So tact, approach, you know -'can this be fixed - do you have time - if you don't mind, or just my opinion, as Raj says tactfully above - get the picture?

So let's be sweet about it.

[Monsterboy]

[...]

So tact, approach, you know -'can this be fixed - do you have time - if you don't mind, or just my opinion, as Raj says tactfully above - get the picture?

So let's be sweet about it.

I never said anything like that. I thought this was a discussion about what improvements could be made to the mod in its current state. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't even say someone should do it, I just pointed out what is in my opinion wrong with the gameplay right now.

I make mods myself, albeit not for UT (if you're interested, check out my vids on Youtube, most models, effects, landscaping etc in the vids were done by me). I know how disrespectful people can be ('I would download your mod/give your mod a good rating, but only if you include a perfectly animated Dragon made from scratch that can do things the game engine doesn't even allow. So do it now, sucka!' or 'I'm too stupid too install your mod so I give it a bad rating'), but I can't see how Slim or me were disrespectful here. Just some constructive criticism about the gameplay, and as far as I know the guy who created the mod isn't even around here.

[Snipe34]

Sry Monsterboy, aimed at Slim who I've since learned is a sarcastic Dutchman.  If I'd known that before I posted I wouldn't have bothered say anything, just lolled.  I got a lotta Dutch friends.  Hi Slim xd

Excellent vids on your link, Monsterboy!  You're a talented person! 

You're absolutely right about KF gameplay.  I had mentioned to afx0r about the problem of 200 monsters - say 1,2 men left, noobs/unlucky dead - perhaps to spawn a patty then or some lesser boss.  From what afx0r says it's a daunting task script-wise to do that.  What he's doing is leaving old KF alone and attaching a module, so he can script from 'ground up.'  But most of his effort is going into 2.53 storymode, new weapons/vehicles and sub-boss/es.  I guess if time permits, 'Survival' will get more fixes but atm, sry, I guess it can't be all good all the time.

Maps also make for gameplay.  And lotta debate easy/hard as you may know with your mods.  For example, I made Gothic for old KF, and modified it for the commercial version at the request of TWI.  But previously on old KF forums Gothic was heavily criticised as too easy, but obviously a popular map.  I've made hard maps and people avoid them.  'S a weird thing the silent majority xd.

[[MiA]afx0r]

kf survival concept is getting old...
maybe some new kf gametype coming (??) xD

I don't know... I still see ppl getting pwoned in waves 6,7 8, 9 before patty....
Maybe you guys are playing easy maps  hahaha

[N3Cr0]

I've got one more suggestion:
I think the standard amount of waves is good and there's also a wave editor, but how about making it configurable for the server admin (only on standard maps)?