As promised a few days ago, here is an attempt to combine Contrast and Goose.
Im not 100% satisfied with some solutions but its decent imo. Report bugs to me if you find any.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=06369911102980976715
omg we're f***ed
nice
I gave this a try for a couple of rounds - i already like what you did there. The transition from elements of both maps into the respective other is really nice. I was confused somtimes about where to go because of that, but I think that is one of the points of it.
I didn't find any bugs in my first run but there is one area of the map where I'd make a little change. The area on Goose where (afair) pick up the big shield is mostly blocked now as you cannot access the lift anymore. This might lead to a deathtrap in freon once there are multiple players killed/frozen. Hags will most likely praise it and warm up his goop gun, but maybe you can do something about this room.
Other than that I'd like to see in on the server for multiplayer testing. :)
it's on the server :)
nice job Kobe,. it's joined in non-obvious way,. which I think is a benefit as it creates unexpected areas that don't exist in either map and that's a good thing,. v cool 8)
Thanks! I like it.
There are a few changes I'd like to see please from the first game - and I'm sure there will be lots more suggestions too:
You can wall-dodge jump up here - but a little more wall to the side would help
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast1.jpg)
This area is a bit of a dead end. It would be interesting to try adding all three of the things marked below to give a lot of different routes out - the lift back, a tunnel through to the open area marked, or some Contrasty bit taking you to the read of the Goose DD
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast2.jpg)
I can think of a reason to go in here...but why would I want to come out of this hole? I need somewhere to go on the opposite side to get somewhere...
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast3.jpg)
This lamp gets in the way of jumps up there. It's still possible but that gets in the way.
Can we have a hole through to the spokes of Goose (see screenshot below this one for the exit) so we can jump to it from the two holes above or the lift/pipe...?
The pipe is a pain. It's slippy on the curve (which the ones in contrast aren't), and if you fall between it and the wall then you can't move properly - please can you make it so that someone can stand on it and not fall between it and the wall? Maybe move it a very little further away from the corner
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast4.jpg)
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast5.jpg)
Really enjoyed it. The game took place 90% in the Goose sections but was fun.
@Piglet:
Screenshot 1:
You dont need a jump-walldodge-jump to get up there. A simple double jump from the edge of the stairs is enough to get up there. I know many players use a jump-walldodge-jump on contrast at that corner (including myself), but this corner of the map already looks ugly af imo so Id rather not make it more ugly :D
Screenshot 2:
I like the 3rd idea of having a small tunnel that drops onto the amp. Gonna include that one. A hole for the lift was also on my mind and then speed up the lfit so you can lift jump to both of the upper floors. Instead of a tunnel that leads to the flag I had something else on my mind:
A 2nd stairs that leads from the 50a upper area to that dead end room. theres not much space left but it should work. Heres a bad sketch for better understanding what I mean
(https://abload.de/img/change5wakvf.jpg)
Screenshot 3&4&5:
The lamp has always been there. So it mustve been in the way in contrast already. but I can move it a little bit.
The pipe isnt exactly slippy". There used to be the platform above it but since theres no enough space for that I removed it and added a blocking volume above it (similar to the one next to the lift in windows room). The angle doesnt let you sit on top.
My suggestion (if any) is a small tunnel that leads to the bridge. See screenshot:
(https://abload.de/img/change696k4j.jpg)
@All:
Here are other changes and fixes Ive already implemented for the next version:
1:
Blocking for the Pipes added. Collision from the hanging lamp removed so you can jump throught it
(https://abload.de/img/change2tujau.jpg)
2:
Small slopes on the hole added so the transition from the lower flak room to flak room is much smoother and you dont have to jump twice
(https://abload.de/img/change4vwkds.jpg)
3:
Platform extended a little bit so you can dodgejump from the chimney to the other side
(https://abload.de/img/change1btk40.jpg)
Nice. Thanks. Looking forward to trying the next version
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast3.jpg)
I very often go this route from the round start if spawning on that ramp,. you are sort of left jumping on to the wall pipes to the left but I guess it is possible to jump down to the left to get on the lower level
It looked nice on the first look. You may want to add some ZoneSound -> ZoneEffect in all ZoneInfos.
Quote from: Piglet on January 02, 2021, 22:51
This area is a bit of a dead end. It would be interesting to try adding all three of the things marked below to give a lot of different routes out - the lift back, a tunnel through to the open area marked, or some Contrasty bit taking you to the read of the Goose DD
(https://miasma.rocks/temp/goosetrast2.jpg)
I can think of a reason to go in here...but why would I want to come out of this hole? I need somewhere to go on the opposite side to get somewhere...
That's exactly the area I was talking about.
Quote from: proof on January 03, 2021, 00:01
2:
Small slopes on the hole added so the transition from the lower flak room to flak room is much smoother and you dont have to jump twice
(https://abload.de/img/change4vwkds.jpg)
Looking forward to see how this version feels like now.
Quote from: hagis on January 03, 2021, 12:11
I very often go this route from the round start if spawning on that ramp, load up my goop and splat it into the very next enemy available, sometimes even killing myself in the process.
Fixed that for you. >:D :))
Is there a new version to try?
Quote from: Blub on January 03, 2021, 18:42
Quote from: hagis on January 03, 2021, 12:11
I very often go this route from the round start if spawning on that ramp, load up my goop and splat it into the very next enemy available, sometimes even killing myself in the process.
Fixed that for you. >:D :))
tactical suicide is a legitimate tactic in some cases :P
@Mauzi: I dont see anything wrong with the already existing ambient sounds
@Piglet: There will be by tomorrow evening ;)
Here you go:
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03473968622142568431
Thanks.
I've uploaded it as "beta2".
First thoughts: Nice! Much better flow.
The new banners stand out too much. I know you've put a lot of work into this but the map would be better without them.
The tunnel to the top area feels a bit too long. I was thinking of it coming out on top of the spokes - however where you have it can be reached from the jump-pad. The bricks above the entrance you have makes it a little hard to get in though.
The lift-jump to the top of goose - I find it hard to reach the platform opposite the chimney. Is there anything that can be done to help do that a little more reliably?
The drop to the DD is great - and opening up the lift really helps.
Looking forward to playing this with more people.
Quote from: proof on January 03, 2021, 22:09
@Mauzi: I dont see anything wrong with the already existing ambient sounds
The ZoneSoundEffect and ambient sounds are different things. Ambien sounds, as you know, are the things which makes "noise" on maps. ZoneSound in the ZoneInfo however will tell the game what type of room the zone info describes. So if it is a small alley, or a big opera. When it's set than it will help to locate other players via sounds like weapon fire and footsteps more precise. And the sounds will be a bit more realistic. So setting them will not mess with ambient sounds and only has positive affects. Especially for a DM-map.
If not already done, zone names would be good too. Contrast doesn't have enough of them and it should have more
@Piglet:
I can tone down the text on the banners a bit. Right now Ive set it to almost unlit while the purple part is influenced by the lighting. Id prefer keeping the general idea though. I mean banners have already been there before, they were red.
Which tunnel do you mean? From Contrast shield to Goose bridge? The problem is that I dont want to add subtracts in the curved wall (outside bio area). Messing around with curved BSPs can cause bugs quick such as BSP holes or HOMs. If players complain then Ill try to see what I can do. You can also access it by doing a walldodge jump from either the tower or the wall near the lift.
Ive already sped up the lift a bit so its easier and I dont have trouble getting there. I can speed it up a little more in the next version though :)
Zones have names as I know this is extremly important for experienced thawers :P
@Mauzi:
Ive actually never heard of it or have seen any other mapper using that and Ive come a long way in the Unreal Editor, even winning a mapping contest back in 2009 when it was worth investing time into making maps :D After some testing I know why. It doesnt seem to have any effect. Ive set up two zones, one with underwater the other with stone room and the sound is exactly the same.
Quote from: Piglet on January 04, 2021, 09:20
Thanks.
I've uploaded it as "beta2".
[...]
Looking forward to playing this with more people.
I'm wondering if that name will ever change. >:D But I'm also looking forward to try it out, I already liked v1 a lot.
Quote from: proof on January 04, 2021, 17:40
Zones have names as I know this is extremly important for experienced thawers :P
Make it dynamic: The area where the most frozen players are at is always named "Where Piglet is going to be soon". :))
Nice gameplay, too. =)
You can also give Volumes location names, so you can put many volumes in the zones and name every meter for Piglet. =D
You could also put a jumppad on the wall midhight with some emitters
ZoneSoundEffect: It should be in all original maps. You probably have not the right hardware for 3D EAX-Sound than.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5snISWiUbEoJ:https://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:ZoneInfo+&cd=2&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-b-d
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:di6IIS-93RkJ:www.unrealed.info/forum/showthread.php%3F7967-DM-Signify-B1+&cd=17&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-b-d
https://forums.epicgames.com/unreal-tournament-2003-2004/ut2004-level-editing-modeling-skinning/9531-ambient-sounds-per-zone
Quote from: proof on January 04, 2021, 17:40
@Piglet:
I can tone down the text on the banners a bit. Right now Ive set it to almost unlit while the purple part is influenced by the lighting. Id prefer keeping the general idea though. I mean banners have already been there before, they were red.
Which tunnel do you mean? From Contrast shield to Goose bridge? The problem is that I dont want to add subtracts in the curved wall (outside bio area). Messing around with curved BSPs can cause bugs quick such as BSP holes or HOMs. If players complain then Ill try to see what I can do. You can also access it by doing a walldodge jump from either the tower or the wall near the lift.
Ive already sped up the lift a bit so its easier and I dont have trouble getting there. I can speed it up a little more in the next version though :)
Zones have names as I know this is extremly important for experienced thawers :P
@Mauzi:
Ive actually never heard of it or have seen any other mapper using that and Ive come a long way in the Unreal Editor, even winning a mapping contest back in 2009 when it was worth investing time into making maps :D After some testing I know why. It doesnt seem to have any effect. Ive set up two zones, one with underwater the other with stone room and the sound is exactly the same.
This has been bothering me because every time people die here, eventually the whole team dies/thaws here and you cant go around quickly.
Everyone can see each other because it's a wide area but it's also missing height so everyone jumps and spams until they die and get thawed and the circle of thaw->spam->thaw keeps going.
Here's what in my mind might be better, in order to have an option to go around, but also block some of the vision and split the area in 2, so it will be much riskier to attack or thaw there.
(https://i.imgur.com/BVSVxxY.jpeg)
Block direct vision in the bottom area(between 1 and 2) and create different paths instead of an open area.
Allow vision from the Contrast-50A lift, all the way to the goosetrast large lift area. (from lift to 3)
Reduce the arch height to ~half or less...maybe convert it to a small corridor on the left like in goose.(exit from curved-goose to contrast-lifts)
I added some of the paths you can take around.
sorry for my drawing "skills"
p.s. open image in a new tab, it's larger than it looks! (c) 2021 - DK
Looks nice - good job dude :) Haven't played it yet, but a mash up of my 2 fave maps is a win in any book :D
The main thing I've noticed with this version is that the Contrast parts don't seem to get used much. There's not a lot of reason to go there.
That tunnel does seem a bit long, and the banners.....the banners..... :(
I need more time to play it
Quote from: Piglet on January 06, 2021, 10:01
The main thing I've noticed with this version is that the Contrast parts don't seem to get used much. There's not a lot of reason to go there.
That tunnel does seem a bit long, and the banners.....the banners..... :(
I need more time to play it
(https://i.imgur.com/ul4rAQ1.jpg)
Maybe something like this could help? This part of contrast is missing.
I love the banners,. the original goose has them and landlords goose extended has them in bright blue,. keep them (even if they do get toned down)
the trast parts not getting the same love,. here's a random idea,. look at the lighting and colour tones in goose,. it's "happier" and warmer palette,. it makes trast (in contrast - ha) look drab and uninviting,. not suggesting to change but wonder if that's some of the reason
more probably though people are looking for other players to shoot and that's choke points and around larger areas,. which are mostly on the goose side (I don't think that's a bad thing)
I`m with Hagis. The banners are fine, maybe a bit bright, or a bit to violet.
He`s also right with the lightning where the transition between the parts could be a bit smoother.
And you can go on the open parts maybe a bit to high, as well as there are parts from the other map visible when you standing on the upper levels. (In the pic I don`t stand there, but you can see them from the ground partly, too.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q6aYEQz.jpg)
Quote from: Piglet on January 06, 2021, 10:01
The main thing I've noticed with this version is that the Contrast parts don't seem to get used much. There's not a lot of reason to go there.
That tunnel does seem a bit long, and the banners.....the banners..... :(
I need more time to play it
I think its a fair share. I know that almost the entire map of Goose is included while Contrast has about 50-60% of its map in this. I also think that the Contrast part is being visited enough. The 50a/Windows room is basically Contrasts Windows Room but with a different ceiling and along with Gooses outside area its where most action takes place. I know what you mean though that nobody is going to the dead end of Contrast which in my opinion has nothing to do with the way contrast looks but simply because its a dead end @hagis
The tunnel was in my opinion the best way to implement it. Yes its longer than all other tunnels, but Ive also seen even longer tunnels in other frequently played maps. Theres one map I cant remember the name of. It looks a bit like Under_LE. There are insanely long tunnels in there too and I havent seen anyone complain about those.
The banners are fine in my opinion. When Goose[L] was played the other day I noticed how disturbing those bright blue banners were. I think my version is more subtle than those. Even then red ones from the original Goose are probably more eye-catching than mine but we all got used to them.
Quote from: holyspam on January 06, 2021, 10:37
(https://i.imgur.com/ul4rAQ1.jpg)
Maybe something like this could help? This part of contrast is missing.
Copying two parts together is one thing but merging them so it plays smoothly is another. How would you connect the Goose bridge downstairs with the Contrast-part which is like 1024 or more UU lower than Gooses amp area.
Quote from: Miauz55555 on January 06, 2021, 18:50
I`m with Hagis. The banners are fine, maybe a bit bright, or a bit to violet.
He`s also right with the lightning where the transition between the parts could be a bit smoother.
And you can go on the open parts maybe a bit to high, as well as there are parts from the other map visible when you standing on the upper levels. (In the pic I don`t stand there, but you can see them from the ground partly, too.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q6aYEQz.jpg)
I think the yellow to greenish lighting is really ugly in Contrast and I personally would never use this color as main color in my maps only as secondary color and even then not as bright and eye hurting. But its part of Contrast thats why I kept it.
While playing I never noticed areas being visible from somewhere else. I know where and why though but if you play the game you wont notice. I dont think its an issue.
hiding place.. fix?
Video
https://mixdrop.co/f/en4z6zngb3nq3p (https://mixdrop.co/f/en4z6zngb3nq3p)
(https://s12.directupload.net/images/210109/3c2vqz5b.png) (https://www.directupload.net)
Finally got to play it today. It's a big map. Really enjoyed it, although I kept thinking I was in Contrast (in the heat of battle) and forgetting it was goosetrast at a few points and making a few wrong turns as I ran backwards. Good Job Matey :)